Marriage document and transcription for Joseph & Julia

Church Records, 1704-1996, Catholic Church, Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception, Mobile, AL. Microfilm of original records in Archdiocese of Mobile, Mobile, AL, Filmed by Genealogical Society of Utah 1996, available through Family History Center, www.familysearch.org.  Film #2047323, Marriages-black 1830-1860:

Anno Domini 1837

No. 28

Joseph Pinta

Julie Rabby

January 5^th, 1837

In the year of our Lord one thousand eight

hundred & thirty seven & on the fifth day of

January, I the undersigned vicar general of the

C. C. Bishop, of Mobile certify that I have

joined together in the holy bond of matrimony

Joseph Pinta with Julie Rabby free colored

persons native of this country.  the dispensations for

the publication of the three bans has been granted,

the license had been obtained from the court &

two witnesses were present. In faith whereof I have

signed.

                                    M. Loras

(Note:  this is the only marriage listed in 1837 in black marriages)

What is your New Year's resolution?

Do you have a New Year's Resolution?  How about making a genealogy New Year's Resolution!  What is one thing you want to accomplish this year in your research?  I am working on my goal and considering I have so many genealogy questions, the biggest problem is deciding on just one resolution.

Did our ancestors make New Year's resolutions?  Did they have a glass of champagne & kiss at midnight?  Maybe---maybe not!

1 January 1837 must have been a time of anticipation for Joseph Pinta and Julia Rabby...they were surely thinking about their future together.  They were married on 5 January 1837 at the Cathedral of Immaculate Conception Catholic Church in Mobile, Alabama by Mathias Loras, Vicar General.  An interesting note is that it was on a Thursday.  Why Thursday?  Was Julia pregnant?  However, their first known child, Victoria, was born on 3 December 1837.  Did they elope or have a small private ceremony?  Their marriage is listed in the Book of Black Marriages, so were black marriages performed only on certain days of the week?

What do you think?

Merry Christmas!

May you all have a blessed Merry Christmas.

What is the Gery/Jeury/Seury in some of the Pinta documents?

Most of the numerous documents I have collected with JB's name show him as Jean Baptist Pinta or J. B. Pinta.  He seems to only sign his name as J. B. Pinta.  However, the following documents show the addition of another name which has been confusing.   Is it a title, a family name, an indication of an area in which he lived or what?  Why would it been used sometimes and not all the time?  Perhaps some of you may have an opinion on this.  Please leave your comments.

1)      Archives nationales d'outri-mer website (1803):  Birth record of Anne Joseph Brunet, witness/sponsor: Jean Baptiste Gery Pinta.  As you can see in the scanned copy, when he signed his name he did not include the name Gery.  This document has not been completely translated.

2)      Sacramental Records of the Roman Catholic Church of the Archdiocese of New Orleans, Vol 10, 1810-12 (this book is transcribed from original documents, but I have not seen the original document):  

PINTA [JEURY, JEURY PINTA] Henri (Jean Baptiste, merchant goldsmith, jeweller, and Lucece Henriette GRANDMAISON, residents of Port-au-Prince on Santo Domingo), b. Oct. 20, 1810, bn. Aug. 1, 1807, at Santiago de Cuba, s. Henri St. Jeme, French lieutenant colonel, resident in this city, and Louise Henriette LEG(D?)IER, sp. Pi(err?) DESNOU, merchant, presently in (*), absent, p. Anne JEURY PINTA, child's sister, resident of this city (SLC, B22, 100).

 3)     Sacramental Records of the Roman Catholic church of the Archdiocese of New Orleans, Vol 12, 1816-17, transcription is as printed in Archdiocese records publication and I have attached the original scanned copy below:

PINTA, Joseph (Juan Bautista Seury, native of Clamecy, Diocese of Soissons in France (Clamecy, dept. of Aisne, arrondissement of Soissons), and Luz Hanrrieta GRANDE MAISON, native of Port-au-Prince on Santo Domingo, both residents of this city), b. Sep. 30, 1816, bn. Jun. 22, 1816, pgp. Luis PINTA and Maria Durna FERTE, mgp. (o), s. Victor Amadeo CARLOMAGNO and Juana FLAYOZE (SLC, B29, 71)

Joseph Pinta, 1816-1867, and his real name is....

Several years ago when a researcher located the will of Jean Baptist Pinta, father of Joseph Pinta, it appeared that Joseph's name was listed as Joseph Dayant Pinta.  (See posting of 5 Nov 2010)  Many of us blindly took the information as fact and changed all of our records to include the middle name of Dayant.  Well, there is an example of jumping to conclusions, especially considering:  1) the document was in French and none of us were fluent in the French language, 2) it was a handwritten document which was difficult to read due to deterioration of the original document and the microfilmed image was rather messy.  A kind sole eventually translated the will, but still, that particular name was not clearly determined.  However, we continued on our merry way thinking he had a first and middle name. 

It soon dawned on me that other acquired documents did not include a middle name or initial for Joseph.  I did a survey and pulled every document in my possession.  This consisted of viewing 69 various records which showed his name.  This included city directories, baptismal records, census, successions, death records, tax assessments, obituaries, marriage records, notary records and deeds.  Well, guess what....not one of them listed Joseph with a middle name or initial.  In my opinion, his real name is....Joseph Pinta.

Jean Louis David Desire Rasteau, brother of Modeste Rasteau

Archives nationales d'outre-mer, 1765 births, image 85 & 86

This document has not been translated, however, in my limited knowledge of the French language, I believe this is the baptismal record of Jean Louis David Desire Rasteau, son of Marie Louise Debrosse and brother to Modeste Rasteau and Lucrecia Rasteau.  If anyone can translate, it would be wonderful!

Jean Baptist Pinta

Recently, while reviewing documents for Jean Baptist Pinta, it dawned on me that perhaps he wasn't the scoundrel that I had pictured.  At about age 30 he said good-bye to his parents and siblings in France and traveled to Haiti seeking adventure and riches, probably in the sugar cane industry.  This would have been prior to1803, which was when his first known child was born in Haiti.  He later took his children and Luce Grandmaison, the mother of his children, to New Orleans by way of Cuba.  Documents indicate that he cared for Luce and the children until his death, even though Luce and JB were never married.  Speculation is that Jean Baptiste Casimir Menial (see post of 11/17/10), Luce's younger half brother, also moved with them from Haiti to New Orleans.  

Jean Baptist Pinta operated a jewelry shop at 35 Bourbon Street in New Orleans in 1811, became treasurer of the The Grand Lodge of Louisiana of New Orleans, trained young men in the jewelry business and served in the war of 1812.  After his death the The Grand Lodge of Louisiana of New Orleans, land owner Celestin Pontalba, and probably others, attempted to sue the estate claiming JB had debts to pay and suggesting that he was less than honorable.  I have not yet found where any money was to be paid to these accusers, however some of the documents were impossible to read.  Originally, my first reaction was that he was a rascal and had a sizable estate due to shady dealings.  However, in taking another look at all this, perhaps others saw the potential of trying to take advantage of the sizable estate and manufactured debt after his death.

JB carefully drafted his will leaving his estate to his siblings in France and his children.  However, he also listed people he owed money and requested they be paid.  He seemed to be concerned about taking care of family and extended family.  Could this really be a man who was also dishonest.....well look at the Godfather or Sopranos, they took care of their own while messing with the rest of the community.  Granted, they were theatrical productions but history shows that there was a good amount of truth in these lifestyles.  Was this the same type of attitude?

Hard to determine what really transpired.  All parties involved would have been influenced by his status, in one way or another.  Any ideas as to where we can get more documents?

Pinta Family of Vera Cruz and Pinta Family of Louisiana

According to Southwest Louisiana Records, Rev. Donald J. Hebert, Jean Baptiste Casimir Menial Pinta was the son of Menial Casimer and Modesto Rattau, (with spelling variations), born about 1800 in Port au Prince.

The baptismal certificate for Luce Henriette Tieraronne/Tieruranne, see image on blog dated 9/24/10, shows that Luce is the child of Modesto Rasteau born 1787.  Luce later had children with Jean Baptist Pinta.

1) Can we assume that Luce Henriette Tieraronne/Tieruranne is the same Luce Henriette Grandmaison?

2) Where did the name Tieraronne/Tieruranne or Grandmaison come from?

Speculation from another researcher believes that Jean Baptist Pinta and Luce Grandmaison left Haiti with their children and Jean Baptiste Casimir Menial and raised him with their family.  JBC Menial would have been the younger half brother of Luce Grandmaison.  It is JBC Menial  who eventually moved to Vera Cruz, Mexico and developed a sugar cane plantation and JB Pinta, the elder, remained in the Louisiana area. 

This all seems very logical and the dates seem to fit, but more proof needs to be collected.  Any comments?

Rasteau genealogy, as of Nov 2010

I have included the current genealogy for Rasteau/Grandmaison.  However, there is still a great deal that needs to be resolved.  Perhaps you have additional information you might be willing to share!  Thanks. 

Will of Jean Baptist Pinta, died 1820

This document has been translated, but it is too lengthy to include here.  It states that Jean Baptist was never married to Luce Henriette GrandMaison ___________.  The blank name is difficult to read.  Children of this relationship are listed with ages, and then discusses his estate.  If you would like to know more details, please contact me by going to my profile and email me.

Luce Grandmaison Death Record, 16 Nov 1838

Secretary of State, Vital Records, Baton Rouge, LA

Transcription: 

Grand Maison Luce Miss

Be it remembered that on this day to wit: the fourteenth of December

in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirty eight and the Sixty Third

of the Independence of the United States of America, before me Vincent Ramos duly commissioned

and sworn RECORDER OF BIRTHS AND DEATHS in and for the Parish and city of Orleans, per-

sonally appeared Mr. Beauvilaires Pinta, a native of St. Dago of Cuba

aged thirty five years, a Silver Smith residing in this City

Villere Street between Dumaine and St. Ann Streets, who

by these presents doth declare that his mother, named Luce,

Miss. Grandmaison, a native of Port au Prince in the

Island of St. Domingo, now Republic of Haiti aged fifty

one years, departed this life on the sixteenth day of November

last past at seven o’clock P.M. in a house situated on Union

Street, between Morales and Urguhart Streets, Suburb

Marigny in the third Municipality, at the residence of

her son Joseph Pinta.

Thus done at New Orleans in the presence of the aforesaid Mr. Beauvilaire

Pinta as also in that of Messrs. Amadex Moret and Andre D.

Doriscount both of this city witnesses by me requested so to be, who have hereunto

set their hands together with me after due reading hereof, the day month and year first above written.

(Signed)      Vincent Ramos

                    Recorder

Andre D. Doriscount

Amadex Moret                                                             B. Pinta

Richard Pinta Death Certificate, Died 27 March 1860, about 4 years old

Secretary of State, Vital Records, Baton Rouge, LA

Son of Joseph and Julia (Rabby) Pinta

Jules Pinta Death Certificate, died 24 Mar 1860, about 2 years old

Secretary of State, Vital Records, Baton Rouge, LA

Son of Joseph and Julia (Rabby) Pinta

Julia (Rabby) Pinta Burial Record, St Louis Cathedral, 6 Sept 1886

St Louis Cemeteries 1 & 2 Interment Book 1880-1888

6 Sep 1886, 1st ilet Mme Julie Pinta 71 years, Tomb no 6, 1st allee a droite S. Levant (1st alley on the right facing the rising sun)

1860 Census, New Orleans, LA

This is the only mention of William Pinta, who is listed as age 11.  The 1860 census does not list the relationship to head of household, so William could be the son of some else.  Or, the census taker may have listed the wrong name for him.  The child born just prior was Eulalie, born 13 Feb 1948 and the child born after him was Jules born about 1856.  There could easily be a child born in 1849 or 1850.  However, no other information has been found, to date, on William.  Also, William does not appear to be a name commonly used by mulatto families in mid 1800's in New Orleans.  Another interesting point:  Joseph & Julia's son, Joseph, had a son named Joseph William born in 1865 and was 5 weeks old when he died.  Did they use the name of William to honor a memory of the William in the census or is it just a coincidence?  Any ideas?

Luce Grandmaison Burial Record, 17 Nov 1838, St Louis Cathedral, New Orleans

 

Thanks to some friends, this record has been translated.  I don't want to mention their names as I don't have permission to use their names on the internet. 

Luce Grandmaison (alias Miss Pinta) born at Port-au-Prince on the island and Republic of Haiti, and aged about fifty-one years, never having been married, and residing in the Parish for about twenty-nine years; she was the natural daughter of the late --- Grandmaison and of the late Modeste Rateau, her father and mother. Died the day before her interment at seven o’clock in the evening at the residence of Joseph Pinta, her son, situated on Union Street, between Morales and Urquhart streets (New Faubourg Marigny) in the Third Municipality of this city, the aforesaid [death] after having received the rites of the religion.

.

Luce Henriette Baptismal Record, daughter of Modeste Rasteau 1787

 Archives nationales d'outre-mer website

This is the baptismal record for Luce Henriette Tieraronne/Tieruranne, daughter of Modeste Rasteau, baptized 20 Mar 1787.  Is this ours?  One would assume so because Luce Henriette's death record also indicates her mother was Modeste Rasteau & she was 51 when she died.  The baptismal record lists the Godparents as Jacques Cameau & Luce Rasteau, and states that Luce Rasteau is the aunt of the child.    Note:  Jacques Cameau & Luce Rasteau had two children together, Marseille born 1782 & Francois.  The assumption would be that  they were married, but we have no proof yet. Where did the name Tieraronne/Tieruranne come from?  Where does Grandmaison connect?  Can anyone translate this record?  I have gleaned dates & names with my limited French.  If anyone sees any errors or can shine new light on this, please let me know.

1860 Richard & Jules Pinta, children of Joseph & Julia (Raby) Pinta, burial record from St. Louis Cathedral Cemetery, New Orleans

St. Louis Cathedral Cemetery Interment book 1857-1864, New Orleans, LA

This record shows the burial record of two of Joseph and Julia Pinta's children, Richard & Jules.  They both died of scarlet fever, just days apart in 1860.  See their death record images on this blog.  You can see that on the burial record it indicates both children were living at No 165 Gasquet, which was Joseph's address in the 1859 NOLA city directory. 

Pinta Family Tomb, St. Louis Cemetery # 2, New Orleans